Re: Astana Peace Summit on Farshonia

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 am

Atletius wrote:Atletius disagrees with Eurussia. What Ireland said displays no humility in the slightest. Ireland is clearly trying to shift the blame for this whole affair away from itself and it's allies. Such actions should not be commended, rather condemned.

It is clear for all to see that Articmainia and Ireland are the aggressors here. They ignored the wishes of the WAAF Assembly by invading these lands, seemingly with the express purpose of causing instability. They ignored WAAF, Tarajani and Atletian attempts to ensure a peaceful solution.

This whole affair has proven Articmainia and Ireland to simply not care about the wishes of the international community, nor do they care about the thousands of deaths their actions would have caused had they not be called off at the last minute.

Atletius, the problem is arrogance. How do the world expect a favorable response from a nation who is only defending an ally even if it is not consistent with the will of the majority when the world is already punching that nation from all direction both in diplomatic and military fronts? Without even extending a hand to them?

Even us stands by them because we believe we are right and we are never intimidated by the 'majority cause' and we are even on the brink of retaking the Republic of Hessen after Farshonia gave its consent. But you know what changed Eurussia's mind? It is the EUROPEAN GOVERNMENT. But we never made our debates in public due to the fragility of the situation but we came into a peaceful conclusion. That is.

Less arrogance to our "co-equal nations." Regardless of how childish or arrogance their acts, for as long as we show respect and our maturity, peace will prevail and they will listen to more experienced nations.

Atletius Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:00 am

It is slightly ironic that Eurussia should accuse us of arrogance. A nation which beloved so fully in its own self-righteousness.
It is not arrogant to tell a nation not to attack another, one that had done nothing to harm the other. Had the secessionists done anything to harm Ireland or Farshonia other than declaring independence? Did that warrant a military response?

The problem is not arrogance. The problem is warmongering and imperialism, a lack of respect for self-determination and a lack of respect for the WAAF and other peacekeeping forces.

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:05 am

Atletius wrote:It is slightly ironic that Eurussia should accuse us of arrogance. A nation which beloved so fully in its own self-righteousness.
It is not arrogant to tell a nation not to attack another, one that had done nothing to harm the other. Had the secessionists done anything to harm Ireland or Farshonia other than declaring independence? Did that warrant a military response?

The problem is not arrogance. The problem is warmongering and imperialism, a lack of respect for self-determination and a lack of respect for the WAAF and other peacekeeping forces.

Eurussia never accused Atletius of arrogance in the first place. The problem is not imperialim, neither warfreak attitude, it is how we treat other nations. What do you expect Ireland to do, which is an ally of a helpless Farshonia whose nation is tearing apart? Ireland bravely acted because they never used the excused of 'freedom and independence' of these secessionist states to resolve the problems of Farshonia. They are weak and just took advantage of the situation much more not even recognized by the same nation they broke away.

The problem is othet nations have seen the breakaway as a solution to the internal chaos in Farshonia which is not. Since in the first place, the method by which they broke away is already illegal in the first place since their secessions are not warranted by Farshonia itself. What if the same secession happens to us? Even if we don't like it? How do you expect us to respond?

Atletius Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:08 am

Explain how it can be considered brave to invade a small state at the whim of King Wilhelm of Farshonia? Rather than aiding every other nation find a diplomatic solution, Ireland and Articmainia immediately jumped into a conflict. That cannot be considered brave nor good.

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:14 am

Atletius wrote:Explain how it can be considered brave to invade a small state at the whim of King Wilhelm of Farshonia? Rather than aiding every other nation find a diplomatic solution, Ireland and Articmainia immediately jumped into a conflict. That cannot be considered brave nor good.

Ireland and Articmainia are brave enough to swiftly save Farshonia who is already loosing control of its own country. They openly stated that are retaking those territories for Farshonia because the latter is incapable already. Where is imperialism there? They never even mentioned to attack those territories because they want to rule those lands or even colonize them.

And to clarify things, there have been no conflict when Ireland and Articmainia entered Farshonia because of our explanation above. The CONFLICT happened only when those supporting the illegally secessionist states have already attacked those supporting the legitimate government of Farshonia. Isn't it clear who is the on the wrong and the right side already? Clear and simple.

Atletius Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:24 am

No, conflict arose when they invaded the secessionists. That caused the conflict, as they were invading for all respects and purposes fully fledged nation states.

Planitan Commonwealth Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:25 am

I recognize those states as well. The Republic of Berlin is under by protection

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:26 am

Atletius wrote:No, conflict arose when they invaded the secessionists. That caused the conflict, as they were invading for all respects and purposes fully fledged nation states.

No. Another problem is the peace the 'majority cause' is pushing, specifically the talks here now in Astana, came too late when Ireland and Articmainia are already on the ground. Instead of reaching out to them, the coalition of the majority condemned them and even engaged them by attacking them because they are destroying the peace when in fact there has been no peace until they voluntarily implemented a ceasefire in respect to this talks.

Then the conflict erupts. The rest is history.

Atletius Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:28 am

Atletius would also like to remind all present that a secessionist nations legality or statuses are not decided by the nation it seceded from, like Eurussia and Ireland are saying.

Planitan Commonwealth Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:29 am

I warned them that I am creating a no-fly zone over Berlin. They ignored it and I was forced to engage. THEY ATTACKED ME I dislike your position EU, the nations have every right to seceded Farshonia didn't take good care of its people and this is what we got.

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:32 am

Atletius wrote:Atletius would also like to remind all present that a secessionist nations legality or statuses are not decided by the nation it seceded from, like Eurussia and Ireland are saying.

Then what?

Planitan Commonwealth Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:32 am

Lots of talking to determine their legality

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:33 am

Planita wrote:I warned them that I am creating a no-fly zone over Berlin. They ignored it and I was forced to engage. THEY ATTACKED ME I dislike your position EU, the nations have every right to seceded Farshonia didn't take good care of its people and this is what we got.

Did the WA Council, or the WA Government authorized a no fly zone over a sovereign state like Farshonia? As a preceden, the previous Security Council succeeded by the WA Council has the only power to authorize such. If not, it has no legality, at all.

Planitan Commonwealth Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:35 am

It was an emergency, there was a threat of invasion and we took it seriously.

Planitan Commonwealth Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:36 am

Did Ireland even ask anyone before he went on his "liberation" mission?

Atletius Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:36 am

Great Eurussia wrote:
Atletius wrote:No, conflict arose when they invaded the secessionists. That caused the conflict, as they were invading for all respects and purposes fully fledged nation states.

No. Another problem is the peace the 'majority cause' is pushing, specifically the talks here now in Astana, came too late when Ireland and Articmainia are already on the ground. Instead of reaching out to them, the coalition of the majority condemned them and even engaged them by attacking them because they are destroying the peace when in fact there has been no peace until they voluntarily implemented a ceasefire in respect to this talks.
Then the conflict erupts. The rest is history.

They refused to halt their military operations while preparations for peace Talks were underway. Please stop attempting to crudely shift the blame away from them. Their invasion was unprovoked one.

Ireland Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:38 am

Yes I asked Farshonia. That is all the permission I need.

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:38 am

Planita wrote:It was an emergency, there was a threat of invasion and we took it seriously.

Precisely. We took the matter on our hands and here we are clashing not just through diplomacy but through military confrontations. Several nations are so eager to show how powerful they are to push aside others that aggravates the situation. We should have asked for the WA Council's authority if we are to impose something on another sovereign country.

OOC: Just like in Syria, US and allies of the world cannot easily enter Syria despite non stop deaths since Russia and China are delayimg the authorization in the UN Security Council.

Atletius Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:40 am

OCC: However your insistence that the states are illegal is without merit as well.

Planitan Commonwealth Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:41 am

Great Empire of Ireland wrote:Yes I asked Farshonia. That is all the permission I need.

Farshonia isn't enough. Asking the WA government would have been better.
We were provoked by Ireland. You were lucky you didn't kill any civilians because I decided to evacuate them.

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:42 am

Atletius wrote:
They refused to halt their military operations while preparations for peace Talks were underway. Please stop attempting to crudely shift the blame away from them. Their invasion was unprovoked one.

Remember what you said. They refuse to halt military operations while 'preparations' for talks are underway. Do you believe they will listen? Did we even bothered to ask the WA Council for us to have the heavyweight order to stop them? None. In their eyes, we are just equal to them. If the same secessionism happens to Atletius, Eurussia will just do the same as Ireland and Articmainia, if your government seeks the same assistance.

We are not shifting the blame. We are showing the flaws and the consequences of our attitude on this crisis that have been blown out of proportion.

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:43 am

Atletius wrote:OCC: However your insistence that the states are illegal is without merit as well.

I am asking you, again. How?

Ireland Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:44 am

Planita wrote:
Great Empire of Ireland wrote:Yes I asked Farshonia. That is all the permission I need.
Farshonia isn't enough. Asking the WA government would have been better.
We were provoked by Ireland. You were lucky you didn't kill any civilians because I decided to evacuate them.

Its his country but perhaps I should of asked the WA Government but it is still his country. He can stop the WAAF from coming into his country. The WAAF is a independent but his country is sovereign. If he doesnt want the WAAF then WAAF doesnt need to get involved. He told me I could do it so I am. How did I provoke you? I did nothing against Planita,New-Zealand, or Atletius. I left them alone. But yall decided to jump in be and further causing another World War.

Great Eurussia Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:45 am

Planita wrote:
Great Empire of Ireland wrote:Yes I asked Farshonia. That is all the permission I need.
Farshonia isn't enough. Asking the WA government would have been better.
We were provoked by Ireland. You were lucky you didn't kill any civilians because I decided to evacuate them.

I believe its enough since it is Farshonia. And it is his own inherent territory who are breaking away from him.

New Tarajan Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:45 am

NOW, TO EVERY ONE, PLEASE, STOP.

We need to hear the position of Farshonia and the secessionist States, now.

I wish only to answer to the main arguments arisen from this discussion. First and foremost, I agree with Atletius: the right of independence cannot be guaranteed by the State from which another one is seceding. It's a non sense, obviously.

Yes, the Peace Talks came later, but for a simple reason: it's easier to declare an intervention, than to talk with the actors involved, summoning them form a Summit. So, that is not an excuse.

We understand the reasons of Ireland, less the Articmainian ones (since we do not know about pacts between them and Farshonia). But now it's time to talk of peace, not of war. We are here to save lives, and avoid a bloody conflict.

About the last statements of Eurussia: the WA Council, in reality, never authorized a lot of other missions, which were undertaken by the International Community (and certain States particularly) nevertheless.
What we ask to Planita is, instead, to coordinate its effort with New Tarajan, Dromoda and Atletius: now it's not the time to protect a single country, but to protect peace as a whole. So, please, join our guarantee, and leave your forces on stand-by. I can assure you that No-Fly Zone is no necessary, since every act of hostility right now will see our immediate reaction.

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