(Resolved) Forum Admin vs New Tarajan/Antanares

[Great Eurussia]

As the Forum Administrator, I have placed these two accounts under surveillance for the entire week seeing how these two accounts are being used interchangeably. I would like to note that they have been questioned before, as one is based in Moscow and the other one is based in Italy. We would also like to note that there was also a time that the New Tarajan Account has posted using the contents of the Antanares Account and that time is when they are far from each other. And recently, they are saying they are both in Italy. I can't remember what post those are but I think there are witness, I'm not sure. From then on, I have been suspicious of these two accounts as much as we keep a close eye on other account holders.

I would also like to note that in Nation States, if an account is from the same IP consistently and joins the World Assembly, they are ejected and punished accordingly. We would also like to clarify that this has nothing to do with RP. We just felt that it's time to bring up the issue and clarify this accordingly as to avoid being abused during RP and conversations. Nevertheless, I don't have any personall ill against the account holder, I just had to be fair to all WA Forum Users.

FACTS ON ANTANARES... As of today!

1) Not WA member...

https://2img.net/h/s23.postimg.cc/aolq3wc9n/Screenshot_2014_05_17_02_06_56_1.png

2) Activities...

https://2img.net/h/s22.postimg.cc/79ap2mdox/Screenshot_2014_05_17_02_07_03_1.png

3) Forum Information...

https://2img.net/h/s4.postimg.cc/eafw88959/Screenshot_2014_05_17_01_51_49_1.png

FACTS ON NEW TARAJAN... As of today!

1) WA member...

https://2img.net/h/s15.postimg.cc/jnxpcqy7v/Screenshot_2014_05_17_02_07_19_1.png

2) Activities...

https://2img.net/h/s22.postimg.cc/y0qx19p75/Screenshot_2014_05_17_02_07_24_1.png

3) Forum Information...

https://2img.net/h/s16.postimg.cc/tmruqnwp1/Screenshot_2014_05_17_01_53_00_1.png

ONLINE SIMULTANEOUSLY???

1) Sometime today...

https://2img.net/h/s11.postimg.cc/wpcrwsfmr/Screenshot_2014_05_17_01_58_43_1.png

With these screenshots, I leave it to the Court's impression on how to judge them as by using common sense, there is a strong possibility of multiple use of accounts or one is really controlling the other and accessible by the other. Which by all means is unfair to all users. We call on the immediate suspension of these two accounts until they can prove they are not worthy of punishment by the WA Court of Justice.

[Federation of Antanares]

Well, I think I can reply with, I hope, few words, to defend the position of me and my brother.

I'm not a WA Member because when I founded Antanares I attended to the High School (I think it's the translation in English for the "liceo", I hope yes) and my brother attended already to the University LUISS in Rome. During the summer and during two weekends for months he returned to home, so in the week-end we used the same IP and NS recognized it. To avoid problems, because I wanted only a nation to lead, I abandoned the World Assembly, also we had the SECURS's forum where play with other player, our friends of Rome.

For the activities, I can't respond because I don't see anything wrong. I do the issue every time one compare in the list, my brother doesn't. I don't see something of strange on it.

For the IP, we live in the same house and I think it's normal we have the same IP. But, if you check most of the posts in September, October, November, December, January and February, with some exceptions, you will find a russian IP, becuase my brother, for the first six months of the Master Degree was in Moscow. Also, for a more near example, the 12th of May I posted from Rome and my brother from London, where he was.

Sincerely, all your writes demonstrate that me and New Tarajan are brother, and that is not a new information for the World Alliance. We have two e-mail, we have two Facebook account (I can link them without problem, they're public) and we have two different style of English writing, also we have two different politics for our nations. I don't what kind of proofs do you need more than these, and I will attend for every answers of the Court of Justice.

[New-Zealand]

I believe Antanares is New Tarajan's brother. 


I can vouch for them. I have conversed with them both independently in the past, and as far as I can tell they are definitely different people, their stories match out perfectly. Either they are infact brothers (99.5% likely) or a highly trained super-spy/con artist (not likely at all)

[Europe and Asia]

At this time, the court feels there is no way to prove that New Tarajan and Antanares are the same person. Their IP addresses are different, with an exception of one, and the only other way to prove they are not the same person would be a picture with both of them in it, which the court feels is beyond its power to compel and is a blatant invasion of personal privacy, which is and should always be se permeate from NS.

If no evidence is shown that once and for all links the two, the court will be forced to dismiss this case due to lack of evidence.

[Great Eurussia]

At this time, the court feels there is no way to prove that New Tarajan and Antanares are the same person. Their IP addresses are different, with an exception of one, and the only other way to prove they are not the same person would be a picture with both of them in it, which the court feels is beyond its power to compel and is a blatant invasion of personal privacy, which is and should always be se permeate from NS.

If no evidence is shown that once and for all links the two, the court will be forced to dismiss this case due to lack of evidence.

How can they prove that they are not using each others' Account? If they are indeed brothers, as many believe, in which I continue to doubt as Forum Admin.

[Federation of Antanares]

I thanks the court for the verdict and NZ for its words.

[Great Eurussia]

I thanks the court for the verdict and NZ for its words.

As the Forum Admin, I request both nations to present themselves before the Court to show that our reports and suspicions are wrong to bring closure to this issue.

[Federation of Antanares]

What do you mean with "present themselves before the court"?

[New Tarajan]

Here I am, Eurussia.

Until now, I left the defense to my brother exclusively under his strong request.
Since you decided to call me, however, I feel obliged to take my defense on my own shoulders.
So said, I cannot avoid to subscribe everything my brother has already said.

With a small add: I wish to point in front of this Court how this case has been raised only when Antanares expressed, in IC terms, a strong position against Eurussia, and flanking New Tarajan.
I wish to say that, in my opinion, this is a blatant case mounted without any evidence from the Secretary General as a form of abuse of his powers.
And, on this note, I wish to say that, since Eurussia is the accuser here, the responsibility to provide strong evidences in favour of this case fall entirely on his shoulders. Something he has not done until now and, due to the nature of the case, I strongly believe it will not do in the future.

Thus, I humbly ask to the Court sorry if my statements resulted too long, but I had the desire to express, as a defendant, my own opinion on the entire issue. An opinion which is (incredibly?) slightly different from that of my brother.

I hope that the resolution of this case will finally bring to an end such a kind of abuse by the Secretary General.

[Great Eurussia]

What do you mean with "present themselves before the court"?

I mean, we have not yet heard a words from New Tarajan here. I would want this issue to have a closure and show us that you are different people and brothers indeed. I eish that my report is wrong.

[Europe and Asia]

New Tarajan is correct. It is the duty of Eurussia to present irrefutable evidence either are the same person.

[Great Eurussia]

New Tarajan is correct. It is the duty of Eurussia to present irrefutable evidence either are the same person.

Again, as you can see, I am using the word "I" which means I am bringing up this matter under my authority as the Forum Administrator and not as a Secretary General. Remember that I have also noted that the two accounts have been under surveillance for a week since I have noticed that both users have been coming up from the same location and the same IP address.

I just felt that it would be better to bring the matter to Court in the name of fairness so that I wouldn't blame myself from any wrong judgement based on what I can see and observe as Forum Admin.

Now, since these two accounts seem to prove themselves here, I would just want to know how can be so sure that the other is not using the other's user account. Since in RP terms, this would constitute puppeteering.

[Ausavia]

This case can be easily solved with a picture of these brothers together with their NS accounts in the photo, if they refuse or are incapable of such then evidence against them will accumulate unless we can see both accounts active in seperate locations on the same time.

[Great Eurussia]

This case can be easily solved with a picture of these brothers together with their NS accounts in the photo, if they refuse or are incapable of such then evidence against them will accumulate unless we can see both accounts active in seperate locations on the same time.

Indeed. Doubts have remained persistent ever since New Tarajan posted a news containing the exact and perfect format of news of Antanares which later New Tarajan admitted that he LOGGED IN USING THE WRONG ACCOUNT! Meaning, if they are really brothers, they could access each other's account and be used to their advantage on RP and VOTING which if I will be the only to judge it as the Forum Admin, I will call it puppetry.

And that is tantamount to exercising my powers as Forum Admin to ban one of the accounts or ban them altogether just what we usually when we discover new nations havinf the same IP Address of another existing nation. Unfortunately, these two nations are good and active in RP which I hope that my doubts will be proven wrong.

[Great Eurussia]

New Tarajan is correct. It is the duty of Eurussia to present irrefutable evidence either are the same person.

I would also like to highlight this Fact, that since this is the usual tool we use to judge if a nation is indeed a puppet or not. That allows us to force that nation to admit or stop its activities altogether. If we do that to new nations, there there is no reason we cannot do the same to older nations who should have known our rules by now.

1) https://2img.net/h/s4.postimg.cc/eafw88959/Screenshot_2014_05_17_01_51_49_1.png

With this, as you can see, it is a post of Antanares. And it also shows the both users New Tarajan and Antanares are coming from the same IP address.

2) https://2img.net/h/s16.postimg.cc/tmruqnwp1/Screenshot_2014_05_17_01_53_00_1.png

With this, as you can see also, is a post of New Tarajan, where the two users are also coming from the same IP address.

I guess it is very irresponsible for New Tarajan to call this as abuse of my powers since this have been the usual tool we use to prosecute puppets in the region. In this same sense, it is not my duty any more to prove these information true but rather THOSE CAUGHT SHOULD PROVE THEMSELVES RIGHT. Thank you.

[Europe and Asia]

The Court requests clarification.

It is clearly shown in the previous posts that New Tarajan posts from the IP far more than Antanares. If they were the same person, wouldn't the IP post numbers be the same, or at the very least closer than what they are? Furthermore, on previous evidence you posted, their IP's only cross on one occasion. There are 1-3 IPs on each profile that do not appear on either one. If they were the same person, wouldn't all IPs being used be the same?

The Court requests clarification on this matter.

[Europe and Asia]

This case can be easily solved with a picture of these brothers together with their NS accounts in the photo, if they refuse or are incapable of such then evidence against them will accumulate unless we can see both accounts active in seperate locations on the same time.

Only if they choose to do so willingly. The Court cannot legally force them to reveal their private lives. More, you aren't relevant to this case. Please leave.

[Great Eurussia]

This case can be easily solved with a picture of these brothers together with their NS accounts in the photo, if they refuse or are incapable of such then evidence against them will accumulate unless we can see both accounts active in seperate locations on the same time.

Only if they choose to do so willingly. The Court cannot legally force them to reveal their private lives. More, you aren't relevant to this case. Please leave.

As the Forum Admin, I agree that we can't force them to reveal their private lives as we uphold privacy and protect it as much as we could. However, the information provided by our FORUM has been officially used for several times in rejecting map claims because of showing which puppet which or whose puppet whose, and from that stand point, it is the duty of the defendant or claimer, in the case of map claims, to prove their innocence since we are not dealing here the rights of this or the right of that. We are after being fair in game play by following our guidelines and rules.

[Federation of Antanares]

I can respond easily to the first case that Eurussia describe. We have two different notebook, but when my brother arrives at Rome not every time take with him the PC. It's sometimes futile because, sometimes, he remain at Rome for few days and he doesn't need every time the notebook and he use the mine. I've inserted the automatic login for both Nationstates and the Forum and during the case that Eurussia described he used my pc without do the logout from my account. This is all the mystery.

Also, I don't have actually his password of New Tarajan on NS and the Forum and he doesn't have my passwords, how normally is between brothers I think. So, it's not puppetry. We created Antanares and New Tarajan to play jointly, we founded the SECURS how region jointly and we decided, jointly, to eliminated the region and transfer here the organisation. It's normal, we are brother, we like play together and I don't see anything wrong with this.

Also, Antanares has its personal politics in the game and New Tarajan other. We have two different style of country: Antanares is more an economical and technological superpower, New Tarajan is more like a modern aristocracy superpower.

Besides, and this is the most important fact and proof that we are two different people: my brother, during the period from September 2013 to March 2014, posted post from Moscow and, at the same time, I posted from Rome or Benevento. I think its not necessary said more about it.

[Great Eurussia]

The Court requests clarification.

It is clearly shown in the previous posts that New Tarajan posts from the IP far more than Antanares. If they were the same person, wouldn't the IP post numbers be the same, or at the very least closer than what they are? Furthermore, on previous evidence you posted, their IP's only cross on one occasion. There are 1-3 IPs on each profile that do not appear on either one. If they were the same person, wouldn't all IPs being used be the same?

The Court requests clarification on this matter.

I am not keen on IP things, but as far as the FORUM info provides and relating it to Map Claims, as the members of the Court have seen themselves, through this IP system that we reject map claims because we discover puppets and we never accept excuses such as this the computer of his mother, father or whatever. Simply like the rules adopted in NS membership in World Assembly.

But for the sake of fairness again, as the Forum Admin, aside from the IP info given by the System, we took another set of information from the posts of New Tarajan/Antanares on this very thread. Here they are;

1) https://2img.net/h/s3.postimg.cc/y5stnw5oz/Screenshot_2014_05_18_08_32_39_2.png
2) https://2img.net/h/s15.postimg.cc/wj9vh9dsr/Screenshot_2014_05_18_08_32_39_1_1.png

Still, the system shows that both users are detected to be coming from the same IP addresses, as much as I would like to believe they are brothers, from my standpoint as a Map Administrator, I will reject the claim of the other and accept the other due to this reliable information.

I don't have any personal ill against anyone but as my duty as Forum Admin, I will insist on my suspicion that this is puppetry until such time that the System shows that they are from different IP addresses.

I will give an example of this, as Forum Admin, I did charged Browera/Broatia and New Zealand/Newasia, similar to this case,  way back since the beginning of the Forums, we battled in Court and although I enjoy playing with them in RP, I have to uphold my duty, and we prevented them from posting while the case is on going, and eventually, I can't remember what they did, but after days or weeks, the IP system have started showing again they are from different IP addresses and eventually won the case in their favor proving their innocence.

Thank you.

[Great Eurussia]

I can respond easily to the first case that Eurussia describe. We have two different notebook, but when my brother arrives at Rome not every time take with him the PC. It's sometimes futile because, sometimes, he remain at Rome for few days and he doesn't need every time the notebook and he use the mine. I've inserted the automatic login for both Nationstates and the Forum and during the case that Eurussia described he used my pc without do the logout from my account. This is all the mystery.

Also, I don't have actually his password of New Tarajan on NS and the Forum and he doesn't have my passwords, how normally is between brothers I think. So, it's not puppetry. We created Antanares and New Tarajan to play jointly, we founded the SECURS how region jointly and we decided, jointly, to eliminated the region and transfer here the organisation. It's normal, we are brother, we like play together and I don't see anything wrong with this.

Also, Antanares has its personal politics in the game and New Tarajan other. We have two different style of country: Antanares is more an economical and technological superpower, New Tarajan is more like a modern aristocracy superpower.

Besides, and this is the most important fact and proof that we are two different people: my brother, during the period from September 2013 to March 2014, posted post from Moscow and, at the same time, I posted from Rome or Benevento. I think its not necessary said more about it.

Can you both join the World Assembly for the time being to erase the suspicion of other member states? 

This will end all the suspicion once and for all without evading your privacies.

[Ireland]

If I may say something. New Tarajan and Antanares have been here a while. They have said they brothers and they have said that they are in the same house. So it would only make sense if they have the same IP address.

[Federation of Antanares]

I said to you two times. Control the post from September to March and said me if Antanares posted, one single time, from the Russia. New Tarajan did it. And now, in this moment, when I'm writing this post, I am in front of my brother, using two notebooks but, of course because we are in the same house, the same connection, that it's not a wi-fi but a cable, if this is important to specify.

[Federation of Antanares]

I don't know if is possible. I created Antanares with the same IP of New Tarajan, we were at Benevento at the creation.
If NS checks the current IP, not the original IP, you must wait for Wednesday, when my brother returns to Benevento and he will log in NS with the other IP.

[Ireland]

See Eurussia at this very moment they are in at the same time. If they were puppets then this couldn't really be happening.

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